Worshipping a Different Jesus?

One Lord...One Faith by Mark E. Peterson on P53 Last full paragraph through the 5th full paragraph on page 54
"The scripture says there can be but one Lord. Are there more in the churches of today?

"In Present day Christendom there are various Lords and Gods. They differ from one sect to another. One believes in a God described as universal intelligence or mind, without body, parts or passions -- not a person -- just mind, or intelligence. When we die, it is said, our minds are merged into the universal intelligence, and that constitutes immortality. Is that the Christian God?

"Another says there is one God with three means of expression, or three names. At one time he appears as the Father, at another time, as the Son, and as the Holy Ghost at still a third time. But he is only one God, and yet not one God, but three, only one, and he is incomprehensible!

"When they speak of Christ some say he is identical to the Father, some say he still has his resurrected body, others say he has laid it aside, claiming that having a body is not compatible with the celestial order.

"The more we study Christendom as we know it, the more we realize the importance of our finding out for ourselves which church is right, so that we will not be among those to be address by the savior when he says: 'Depart from me, I never knew you, ' even though we may have cried out 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name done many wonderful works?' (Matt. 7:21-23).

"We must choose the true way of salvation, for otherwise we may find ourselves on the broad way which leads to destruction."

These paragraphs made me reflect on times when I have been accused of not being Christian because I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As I have assured them that I believed in the Savior they said that our church believes in a different Jesus, so we are not Christian. As stated in these paragraphs between the various denominations of Christianity you find all sorts of different Jesus' and different God's being worshiped.

The question is would Christ affiliate himself with Christianity if he returned today?

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

The seventh chapter of the book One Lord...One Faith is titled "The Nature of God" has scripture after scripture on why Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being the same being is not scriptural. He uses several versions of the Bible to help illustrate. He also includes his own commentary on the subject. I have included some of them below. They show Jesus talking to the Father or about the Father doing something or about sending the Holy Ghost. It seems clear that these are separate beings that are show to be together in the same place at the same time.

Luke 10:21-22
Matthew 26:39, 42, 44
Matthew 19:16, 17
Luke 2:49, 52
John 7:16-17
Acts 7:55-56
John 14:16-17
John 14:25-26
John 15:26
John 16:7-8

Not Just A Suggestion

I was listening to the First Presidency Message in this month's Ensign and came across this paragraph:
"First, the Holy Ghost remains with us only if we stay clean and free from the love of the things of the world. A choice to be unclean will repel the Holy Ghost. The Spirit dwells only with those who choose the Lord over the world. “Be ye clean” (3 Nephi 20:41; D&C 38:42) and love God with all your “heart, … might, mind, and strength” (D&C 59:5) are not suggestions but commandments. And they are necessary to the companionship of the Spirit, without which we cannot be one."

He quoted some things that we are told to do in the scriptures. He noted that they are not suggestions, but commandments.

I have often felt that the crowd that says all we have to do to be "saved" is to say that we accept Jesus ignores that he has commanded us to do things more than just recognize that He is the Savior. Yet I also find that we Latter-day Saints at times treat the scriptures or the words of the prophets as suggestions as well.

Is sitting in a parked car alone with a person of the opposite sex wrong even if we don't violate the law of chastity? The prophets have counseled us not to do that. Is it a suggestion of a commandment?

What about making out when you are not married? You have not broken the law of chastity, but what have the prophets said?

"We must clearly explain to our children that passionate kissing and “making out” should be left until after marriage. Too many young couples falsely believe that because they are dating or engaged they can relax these constraints. Yet it is during this emotion-filled time that the greatest care should be taken to build and preserve a virtuous relationship.

“'When the unmarried yield to the lust that induces intimacies and indulgence, they have permitted the body to dominate and have placed the spirit in chains. It is unthinkable that anyone could call this love.' (Spencer W. Kimball, 'Love vs. Lust,' in 1965 Speeches of the Year, Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1966, p. 9.)"
(From the December 1986 Ensign Talking with Your Children about Moral Purity)

Are their words a suggestion or a commandment?

Is watching rated R movies wrong, even though there is not specifically a temple recommend question asking if you watch rated R movies? The prophets have counseled us not to do that. Is it a suggestion of a commandment?

Elder Cree-L Kofford Of the Seventyin his July 1998 Ensign article Marriage in the Lord’s Way, Part Two
"All too often, we get ourselves enmeshed in the process of trying to understand why God gave us a particular commandment. We want to rationalize. I don’t know where that is more evident than in watching movies. Young people know they should not watch R- or X-rated movies, and yet time after time I hear them say, 'Well it’s only rated R because it’s violent.' What difference does it make why it is rated R? The fact is, a prophet of God has said not to go to R-rated movies (see, for example, Ezra Taft Benson, “To the ‘Youth of the Noble Birthright,’ ” Ensign, May 1986, 45). That ought to be good enough."

Remember the Sabbath Day, to Keep It Holy.

Exodus 20
7 Thou shalt not take the ^aname of the LORD thy God in ^bvain; for the LORD will not hold him ^cguiltless that ^dtaketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the ^asabbath day, to keep it ^bholy.

9 ^aSix days shalt thou ^blabour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ^astranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in ^asix days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD ^bblessed the sabbath day, and ^challowed it.

In Exodus 31:16 the Lord states that it is a "perpetual covenant". Dictionary.com define perpetual as "continuing or enduring forever; everlasting." Verse 17 reenforces this definition in this context: "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever"

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual ^acovenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in ^asix days the LORD ^bmade heaven and earth, and on the ^cseventh day he ^drested, and was ^erefreshed.

Verse 13 also states:

 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my ^asabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that yemay know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Elder Ezra Taft Benson quoted President George Albert Smith, "much of the sorrow and distress that is afflicting and will continue to afflict mankind is traceable to the fact that they have ignored his [God's] admonition to keep the Sabbath day holy" (Conference Report, Oct. 1935, p. 120; quoted in "Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy," Ensign, May 1971, 7).

Why Christ "...Gave Some Apostles; and Some Prophets..."

In Eph. 4: 11 Paul states of Christ:
11 And he ^agave some, ^bapostles; and some, ^cprophets; and some, ^devangelists; and some, ^epastors and ^fteachers;

Why did he set up these offices in his Church?

Verse 12 states that these offices were:
"For the ^aperfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the ^bedifying of the body of Christ: "

Verse 13 states the duration that these offices would be part of his Church.
"Till we all come in the ^aunity of the faith, and of the ^bknowledge of the Son of God, unto a ^cperfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: "

One could hardly call the state of Christendom today "the unity of faith".

Verse 14 states another purpose of these offices:
"That we henceforth be no more ^achildren, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of ^bdoctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

These offices were so that there would be an authority as to what the truth is when individuals or congregations disputed the meaning of scriptures.

The scriptures also give us direction as to how church leaders are called.
Heb. 5: 4
4 And no man taketh this ^ahonour unto himself, but he that is ^bcalled of God, as was ^cAaron.

People don't just decide that they are going to be take on one of these offices they must be called of God as Aaron was. Aaron did not go to school to study to lea the people. He was not chosen by the congregation. He was not able to be fired by the congregation. He was called by The Prophet of God and that prophet laid his hands upon him to bestow the responsibility on him.

When Jesus died he left the apostles. He did not leave the individuals with the Holy Ghost alone to figure out God's doctrine. The Holy Ghost only guides for what you have stewardship over. That which God has given you stewardship over, not what you chose to take stewardship over or what a congregation hires you to have stewardship over.

Eph 2:19-20

19 Now therefore ye are no more ^astrangers and foreigners, but ^bfellowcitizens with the ^csaints, and of the ^dhousehold of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the ^aapostles and ^bprophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief ^ccorner stone;

You don't remove the foundation anymore than you would the corner stone.

The Lord Hardened Pharaoh's Heart Exodus 4:21, Exodus 9:7

Exodus 4
21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those ^awonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine ^bhand: ^cbut I will ^dharden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exodus 9
7 And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.

Does the Lord cause people to sin by hardening their hearts?

Law of Witnesses

I have thought for a while that it was weird that when someone quotes a talk by one person, the quote ends up being from someone else. Today as I was listening to the First Presidency Message in the June 2008 Ensign I found a blurb about witnesses.

"In our own time we have been warned with counsel on where to find safety from sin and from sorrow. One of the keys to recognizing those warnings is that they are repeated. For instance, more than once in general conferences, you have heard our prophet say that he would quote a preceding prophet and would therefore be a second witness and sometimes even a third. Each of us old enough to listen heard President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) give counsel on the importance of a mother in the home and then heard President Ezra Taft Benson (1899–1994) quote him, and we have heard President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008) quote them both.3

The Apostle Paul wrote, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established” (2 Corinthians 13:1). One of the ways we may know that the warning is from the Lord is that the law of witnesses, authorized witnesses, has been invoked. When the words of prophets seem repetitive, that should rivet our attention and fill our hearts with gratitude to live in such a blessed time."

Prophets quote other prophets to give a second witness.

Being Born Again

We had a lesson in church today that I thought was worthwhile to post here for discussion.

The lesson was based on a talk from April 2008 general conference.
Elder D. Todd Chistofferson - Apostle (Audio, Video)

Born Again

The instructor cited the story that Elder Christofferson related about having a retired protestant minister come to his home because the minister was concerned about Elder Christofferson's salvation. He and the minister had talked about what it meant to be born again.

John 3:3-5

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be ^aborn ^bagain, he cannot ^csee the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be ^aborn of ^bwater and of the ^cSpirit, he cannot ^denter into the kingdom of God.

Unless we put off the natural man we have not come to Christ. Does this mean we are perfect and do not make mistakes, but if we have put off the natural man we constantly reach for Christ and strive to do better.

1. Mosiah 3: 19
   19 For the ^anatural ^bman is an ^cenemy to God, and has been from the ^dfall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he ^eyields to the enticings of the Holy ^fSpirit, and ^gputteth off the ^hnatural man and becometh a ⁱsaint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a ^jchild, ^ksubmissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
2. 1 Cor. 2: 14
   14 But the ^anatural man ^breceiveth not the things of the ^cSpirit of God: for they are ^dfoolishness unto him: neither can he ^eknow them, because they are ^fspiritually ^gdiscerned.

Mosiah 5: 2

2 And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty ^achange in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do ^bevil, but to do good continually.

Being born again is a process and not a one time event.

Because We Want To

We had a lesson Sunday and part of it had to do with changing our hearts from being obedient out of duty and being obedient because it is who we are in our hearts (Sunday July 20, 2008 - Services Sullivan Hollow Se...).

I was listening some Ensign articles on the way into work and happened across one in the June issue (The Exquisite Joy of Repentance). There is a line in there that states, "Many years ago I paid my tithing because I felt I had to. Now I realize I can pay it with a heart full of gratitude and with the excitement that comes from knowing that the funds will help build churches and temples."

Will we be blessed for doing it out of duty? I believe we will, even if it is a little begrudgingly. But will will not have a fullness of joy that comes from putting your whole heart into it and doing it out of love for Heavenly Father and love for those we serve.

What else is missing?

From p41 of the book From Critic to Convert by Willard Morgan after referring to the doctrine taught by Jesus that Paul references in Acts (20:35):
"What else did Jesus say that is missing from modern Bibles? For forty days he remained with the apostles after his resurrection. What did he teach them then? Certainly, anything he had to say would be important. In addition to these references, the Bible refers to seventeen other books of scripture which have become lost." Footnote 4 on this chapter in the book lists several books that are referenced and not included in the Bible.

All Roads Do Not Lead to Rome

I recently started reading One Lord...One Faith by Mark E. Peterson. This will probably be the first of many gems that I find in this book.

He starts the book by saying "One of the great fallacies of the world today is found in the expression: 'All roads lead to Rome.' They do not."

He then quoted the Savior from Matthew 7:21. "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven"

Indianapolis West Stake Boundaries

I saw a comment that someone put on one of my other blogs through firefly. They asked what the boundaries were for the Indianapolis West Stake. I asked around and am told that this information is not confidential, so I am going to put a link here to a PDF with the boundaries.

Indianapolis West Stake Boundaries

Fair Test

I was listening to an Ensign article on the way to work and the author noted that life is a fair test because our memories had been taken from us or something like that. I haven't yet gone back to reread it to find out what they entirely said, but it struck me as something that people not of our faith might not understand, so I pondered it a little. I captured the following thoughts and perhaps people could comment here and help me make them more coherent.

1. With our memories wiped our true character could come out. We would not be inhibited by something we remembered from before.
   
2. When your boss is in the room you might be more guarded and not show your true character whether it be good or bad.
3. Someone offers you money in another currency to perform some set of tasks over the course of a few years. Perhaps it is a job offer, I don't know. You have no idea how much the currency was worth. Would you be limited in what you were willing to do to get that money?
   What if someone came up to you and said that they had read something by a person who had been to that country and knew that what they were offering was a large sum of money? What if they gave you material that detailed how to do the tasks and they told you the tasks would take time, but you could do them in the time you had been given? Who is the author of what they read? Who is the person testifying that they know the author to be truthful? What if they told you there would be people who had experience with such tasks to help you?
   Perhaps you would have to do some research yourself and learn about that currency and maybe even that culture. Through the process you would learn and grow as a person and maybe earn even more money as you progressed in your research and in the end you would have the large sum of money as well?

Faith vs Science

There always seems to be a discussion of faith vs something. Whether it be faith vs works or faith vs science of whatever. I think I have discussed before in some places my thoughts on how faith and works are connected. Now I have a few thoughts that came to mind about faith and science.

I believe that faith is a branch of science. One that is learned by having experiences with God and recognizing them.

I can not give you my notes and necessarily have you understand them without you having gone through the same experience or something similar.

Teachers of Religion That Fail to Do Their Duty

I was listening to Insights into Isaiah (http://www.byub.org/isaiah/) yesterday morning on the way to work. They were discussing Isaiah 56:10-11.

10 His ^awatchmen are ^bblind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are ^agreedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are ^bshepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their ^cown way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

They proposed they could be talking about teachers of religion that do not do their duty. They fail to call out the sins of the people. They fail to train the people up in the correct ways they should go. Many churches has paid clergy. That can make for a hard conflict since they work for the congregation and the congregation can fire them if they don't like the way they preach or what they preach.

I think Abinidi also taught some of this in Mosiah 12:25-29

25 And now Abinadi said unto them: Are you ^apriests, and pretend to teach this people, and to understand the spirit of prophesying, and yet desire to know of me what these things mean?

26 I say unto you, wo be unto you for perverting the ways of the Lord! For if ye understand these things ye have not taught them; therefore, ye have perverted the ways of the Lord.

27 Ye have not applied your ^ahearts to ^bunderstanding; therefore, ye have not been wise. Therefore, what teach ye this people?

28 And they said: We teach the law of Moses.

29 And again he said unto them: If ye teach the ^alaw of Moses why do ye not keep it? Why do ye set your hearts upon ^briches? Why do ye commit whoredoms and ^cspend your strength with harlots, yea, and cause this people to commit sin, that the Lord has cause to send me to prophesy against this people, yea, even a great evil against this people?

These Are They Who Died Without the Law

Here's another one to get some discussion going.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:72-75

72 Behold, these are they who died ^awithout ^blaw;

73 And also they who are the ^aspirits of men kept in ^bprison, whom the Son visited, and ^cpreached the ^dgospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who ^areceived not the ^btestimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are ^ahonorable men of the earth, who were ^bblinded by the craftiness of men.

Does this mean they never heard the Gospel (the law) OR that they never made covenants to accept the law?

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith Of the Council of the Twelve Apostles in his April 1942 Conference talk - The Necessity of Working on Our Own Lineage stated:
"They who enter into the terrestrial kingdom, the one higher than the telestial, are the honorable men — the honest, the virtuous, those who have been clean, and yet would not receive the gospel. There will be some others also who will go into that kingdom, but in a general sense these people will be the honest and honorable, who could not or would not see or receive the gospel of Jesus Christ, therefore they are assigned to the terrestrial kingdom."

Love is What You Go Through Together

I was listening to the last Worldwide Leadership Training meeting on the way to work a few weeks ago and heard Elder Jeffery R. Holland talking about the reasons that people put off getting married (schooling, finances, and so forth). He then quoted James Thurber, "Love is what you go through together." (See “Thurber,” Life, Mar. 14, 1960, 108.).

As I heard that I thought of another facet of people making decisions to get married. Sometimes the opposite is true. People jump into bad relationship because they don't think logically enough and get God involved in the decision making process. At times people get caught up in feelings about how handsome the other person is or that they enjoy being touched by them or that it is so exciting to see them in some activity they do whether it be driving a fast car or playing a sport and they label that as love.

As I reflected on my own experience and on the quote that Elder Holland gave, I wondered if love doesn't happen until one has been married for some period of time. It also reminded me of the Michael McLean song It Wasn't Love Before.

It appears to me that love comes through going through experiences together. One should perhaps look more at if this is a person who they could successfully go through trials with.

An Example of the Believers

In studying in Preach My Gospel this morning I found this:
"Along with your authority comes a responsibility to live worthy of your calling. As the
Lord’s representative, you are to be “an example of the believers” (1 Timothy 4:12). Strive
to live according to God’s commandments and keep the covenants you made in the temple;
know the scriptures; be courteous, on time, and dependable; follow missionary standards
of conduct, dress, and grooming; love the people with whom you serve and work. Honor
Christ’s name by your actions."

I think that this applies to not just missionaries, but all members of the Church. Too often members of the Church have language, dress, conduct, and personal standards which do not give a good example of being a believer and does not honor Christ.

We all represent the Lord by virtue of being members of the Church.

Obedience Is the Armor That Will Protect Us from Evil

Found this in the last paragraphs of an article in the January 2008 Ensign by William D. Oswald Second Counselor in the Sunday School General Presidency - Obedience: The First Law of Heaven

He quotes President Boyd K. Packer:
“By following the rules,” said President Packer, “you will never make a serious mistake … either while you are on your mission or thereafter without being warned. You will never take the wrong road, you will never go around the wrong bend, or make the wrong decision without your having been warned. That pattern is the pattern of the Latter-day Saint. You were confirmed a member of the Church, and you had conferred upon you the gift of the Holy Ghost to be a guide and a companion to you.”2

Certainly Latter-day Saints believe this is true for the prophet leading the church. Do we believe this for us leading our families? And if we do, why are we not more obedient?

Trees in the Scriptures

Is there any significance to God using trees in the scriptures? For example, the tree in Lehi's dream and the two trees in the Garden of Eden.

Also, Adam and Eve were not forbidden to partake of the Tree of Life until after they partook of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Had they partaken of the Tree of Life before that? Is the Tree of Life a symbol and not an actual tree, much as in Lehi's vision?